Participating in Democracy is how we Protect Democracy: a conversation with Steve Phillips

We're kicking off season two of  Courage — It Looks Good On You! with Steve Phillips,  author of "Brown Is the New White: How the Demographic Revolution Has Created a New American Majority" and the newly released national bestselling book "How We Win the Civil War: Securing a Multiracial Democracy and Ending White Supremacy for Good." 

Steve Phillips, joined by Irene Kao, executive director of Courage California, discusses his new book and what exactly it will take to protect democracy, and if we're prepared for it and up to the challenge.  

With You, fashioned in Courage, We Can create a California that represents and serves us all.

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Transcript

Irene: [00:00:00] Thanks, Angela. There's nothing more powerful than an informed and engaged voter, which is why I'm joined by political leader, author, and columnist Steve Phillips. Steve has long championed the importance of a multiracial democracy built through intentional engagement of communities of color and progressive white allies.

Which is the centerpiece for courage, California's own political strategy, and personally, my own North Star for my approach to work and really my, my whole life. So Steve, welcome. Really excited to have you. I've read both your books. As I mentioned, they've been very influential in terms of how I've thought about work, but just also.

Has, has really impact and implications for my own personal life as well. So I just read your new book, the How We Win, the Civil War that came out last year. [00:01:00] What compelled you to write this book?

Steve: Well, the publisher, the New Press, came to me in April of 2020 and asked, do I, did I wanna, should we talk about a second book and given the, I think it's a combination of the severity and ferocity of what Trump had unleashed within this country. The unapologetic white nationalism, the raw attacks on people of color and immigrants.

Was very Civil War E. And so then I said, well, why don't we use the Civil War as a metaphor for what's happening in the country right now? And I was also concerned that not enough people on the progressive side appreciated the nature of the fight that we were in. So I floated the idea as a metaphor, and then eight months later, people carrying the Confederate flag wearing sweatshirts, say, Maga Civil War, January 6th, 2021.

Stormed United States Capitol and tried to stop the, the [00:02:00] democratic peaceful transfer of power. I was like, well, this is not so metaphorical anymore. So I think it was really about trying to impress upon people this, the sense of urgency and try to offer some clarity around the true nature of the intensity of the fight that we are facing, as well as to also lift up examples of what we can do and where we were actually winning and where we're making progress.

Irene: Well, so I'm curious what you said in terms of, before you were saying sort of progressives weren't. You feel like didn't realize sort of the gravity of what was happening post insurrection? It felt like it was a wake up call for people, that it was right in our faces, something we couldn't deny. And it also feels like it sort of unleashed even more like, but do you feel like progressives are still staying on?

How about do you feel like, do you feel like the lesson has stuck with them?

Steve: No, just a short [00:03:00] version. I think we all have it, it's natural to have short memories, period, but you can see it right away from the beginning. Of the Biden administration, the strategic emphasis that they put on, and I should say on top, I, I actually overall have been more. Pleasantly overall pleasantly surprise with the Biden Biden administration is what I expected in terms of how progressive they might or could be.

But from the very beginning, there was a ferocious assault on voting rights and a and great clarity on the side of the right that they need to suppress democracy and they have to stop people from voting if they're going to win. And they went after it, introducing hundreds of bills all across the country, and also with great surgical precision or everything that they could identify that had been done to expand the number of people voting and to make it easier to vote where they could.

They undid that and, and, and outlaw it. We had 24 hour voting in [00:04:00] Harris County Texas, and then they passed the law banning that. Zuckerberg gave a bunch of money to re, you know, shore up local election administration so they can, you know, properly conduct and count the ballots. They banned taking any outside money.

So the attack from the right has been very, very unrelenting. Methodical and, and, and focused. And that was not a commensurate response. And there still to this day has not been a commensurate response from progressives and from the left. And that there was such a, a session, I would even say with the VI Biden administration, but trying to come across as bipartisan in that, oh, we're gonna get a bipartisan infrastructure bill and that will show that, you know, we could all work together, et cetera, et cetera.

Meanwhile, they're literally coming for us. And so, and, and the, and surrendering the potential and the power of the platform that they had in terms of the bully [00:05:00] pulpit in terms of the controlling all of Congress and not utilizing that to counter these attacks on democracy by launching a real crusade for democracy, which can, should have been done and still should be done.

Irene: Well, so you were the, you used the word methodical, which I think. Is very representative of your book as well because while you say the Civil War was a metaphor, it has become very literal in the last couple of years. But you also show through decades and really centuries how white supremacists and with the, sometimes with the complicitness of the government or at the behest of the government has long used.

Disinformation violence and racist systems to really uphold white power. And you just spoke about how they've managed to continue pivoting this playbook to stay ahead of things, but progressives have not. So [00:06:00] where do you really feel like progressives or folks on the left really need to focus? Cuz I think we hear often.

That progresses, we tend to be a lot more reactionary. And so we're putting out fires and that's not allowing us to be ahead of the ball, ahead of the sort of white supremacist playbook. So what do you feel like progressives need to be doing, and where do you see sort of seeds of that happening around the country, but especially in California?

Steve: So I, I was saying after the mid, in the right up to the midterms and that was like so baffling. I baffling. Certainly frustrating in terms of This cons, ubiquitous opinion and consensus that the Democrats were gonna lose and lose badly in the midterms. And I was like, why is that the case? And why is that a given in since Biden won the most votes in [00:07:00] 226 of the house districts in two 18 of the majorities?

Why is it a given that we're gonna lose? And the fact that it didn't go nearly as badly as people thought. You know, I think really affirmed that analysis. Its elections are a lot, really all about turnout, and that goes all the way back. I mean, that's the things you learn when you're researching and writing a book.

After the Civil War, the majority of the people in South Carolina and Mississippi were black, so they had to suppress the vote in terms of the, from the, from the very beginning. So the, I came outta the midterm saying, We're thinking that like we need a million precinct captains. Like we spend way too much money on television ads and trying to be like clever, try to persuade people who there's a, a gross overestimation of the number of voters who are swing voters.

And so that's the lion share. Tele of, of [00:08:00] political spending goes to TV ads to try to persuade those opposing swing voters. Whereas what we really need to be doing is investing heavily in voter turnout and that, that's why I thought this concept around a million precinct captains in that really trying to mobilize and get as many people as possible registered to vote.

And again, people who are registered to actually cast ballots. My favorite story mentioned California from 2018. Is the Democrats are trying to retake the house. And a major donor, California major donor came to me and asked, where are they? They wanted to move money through the house, super Pac House majority pack the which was designed to take back the house and wanted to spent half a million dollars.

And I said, well, go look at David Val's race. He, he narrowly won that race. It's majority Latino district and there's tens of thousands of Latinos who did [00:09:00] not vote. So if we can get them registered, mobilized, we can feel able to flip that seat. This person was told by the superPAC, no, we shouldn't go into that district cuz there are a lot of Latinos there and they don't vote in midterms.

We should find someplace else to go. So we pushed back and they said, oh, our polling shows it's not a good district. And I was like, what? How could it possible? That since Latinos are like two thirds democratic in California that you're, and it's a majority Latino district, how is it possible your polling stuff could ask them for the poll?

So they pushed back and they agreed and they moved, they, they did in fact move the money. So they moved the money to communities for a new California and which right comes out of the whole farm workers movement. And they, you know, hired people to knock on doors, do phone calls, contacted 30,000 people.

And we won that seat by 800 votes. That's my favorite story of 2018, and I think it's an illustration of the work that's required on all levels. Frankly, I ain't even thought about this [00:10:00] till the second. First, fighting with the people who control the purse strings to get them to spend the money properly, and then getting the money moved to the people and the groups and the work, which is focused on maximizing voter turnout.

Irene: Well, so it's interesting you bring up that particular race. And of course, courage works with communities for New California, and so we see how they're moving in their communities, how they're so dedicated to this voter turnout, but really just engaging with voters in the off cycle too. So it's not never just about the election, but like you said, building this electorate over time.

Well, I mean, I'm sure you share with Be Sir, right? Like it was, it was wonderful to have those big wins in 2018, but then turnaround 2020, you know, we have historical voter turnout. We vote Biden and Harrison to the as our new administration, but we lost some of those houses seat that we won in 2018.

And I think [00:11:00] people are still thinking about what really contributed to those, those losses. But as we're starting to look forward to 2024, another really big election year, and like you said especially after midterms where people were kind of surprised by the results, what do you feel like are sort of the lessons that we should be continuing to learn from, you know, both victories and the losses that we saw in 2020?

The insurrection that happened, the midterms going into 2024, like what can Californians be doing now or paying attention to now to get us ready for having good, good wins, good results in 2024.

Steve: So I come back to the thing about the the million Precinct Captains and how. Voter turnout is the imperative. And so we spend, may we, you know, well commission the Democrats spend, well, really billions of dollars, but certainly in the like the house, so California can and should be critical [00:12:00] to taking back to House of Representatives in 2024.

So the number of those seats that we did win in 2018, and we lost a number of them in 2020 and they were close races. And those were largely the failure of voter turnout, failure to invest in voter turnout. So the kinds of resources that were spent in 2018 to help communities for new California mount, the kind of plan and program they needed to mount.

Were not there in 2020 in the same way. So 20. 20. Yeah. And so 20, the imperative for this next year. Is to, for one, try to put as much pressure as possible on the entities that are spending money. People should start now. So the entity that I mentioned, house Majority Pack is going to be spending a lot of money, and yet their default is to always spend that money on television ads.

And so there needs to be public accountability and engagement and questioning of them around what is the, where is the evidentiary basis of the [00:13:00] efficacy. Of these television ads in terms of winning elections, and what are you doing in those resources that you have to make sure as many people as possible vote.

And so there's a great deal of imperviousness of these entities that I think that activists and organizations can really help to put pressure on them shining a light. You know, we could, you know, these modern day technological tools, you could put up a, you know, Google document and a Renzo like, here's where the key congressional districts are in California.

And a lot of this one information is publicly available through the f e C reports around where they're, excuse me, where they're spending their money. And you can see that they're spending money in these different districts, but they're already spending it on television ads. And so then minimally on social media, we trying to, you know, watchdog them, pressure them, push them, as well as then just directly and trying to engage [00:14:00] activists to push these folks.

So another example of how the, and the, the I, the frustrating part about this is that not only is it like unaccountable and impervious and you know, pretty immune pressure the way it has been historically. But there's not a evidentiary basis. There's not the logic and the rationale for why they make these decisions.

So the clearest example was in 2020 with the Senate Majority Pack, which was designed to take back the Senate spent, you know, close to $200 million to do that. As of August 1st, 2020, Senate Majority Pack had spent 7 million in Iowa. And zero in Georgia. Now, which state took back the Senate? It was Georgia.

And so what was the rationale? So if in, in 2020, the 2018 [00:15:00] Gubernatorials, Georgia was much closer than Iowa 2020 the, the 2016 Presidential Georgia was closer than Iowa. So what was the basis to be drawing this conclusion that you spent all this money in Iowa? But they're never questioned on these things, but they have the money.

And so that's where I feel like as a strategic focus, activists, organizers should really be engaging with those who control the spending on the progressive side to, well, first just, well first just share the level, lack of transparency is astounding. And then on top of that, then as they share to explain what is the.

Rationale, where is the evidentiary basis that is driving these decisions? Because I have been in these rooms and I can assure you it's frequently and usually not there, or certainly not justifiable. And that I think can be a high leverage point for actors and organizers. Try to [00:16:00] move some of those many, many millions of dollars.

Two groups who are doing the work of contacting voters and mobilizing them to the polls.

Irene: I mean, I think what I find really interesting about this is, well, so KRS California focuses on a lot of communications and narrative work. So you know, whose voices get spotlighted in the media, whose perspectives, whose analysis, like you said, right? I mean, watching sort of what's happening with 5 38 and these, these usual pollsters, these pundits who.

Who have specific stories they tell and use data to support those stories. But oftentimes we've seen those numbers don't accurately reflect when we end up getting results. But it also keeps feeding what seems to me like this outdated narrative about what we need to do to win what's really possible and where we need to focus.

And so I'm [00:17:00] wondering, you know, you wrote a, you wrote a book, you're very clear on. Specific terms you use, the specific people you spotlight, what do you think needs to happen in terms of changing the narrative? Because for me it feels like, it's almost like these pundits and these consultants are in an echo chamber, and so we keep following the same playbook, this unsuccessful playbook, because they're just talking to each other.

But we need to change the narrative. So I'm wondering, Where, where do you feel like we need to go in sort of pushing that narrative much further ahead of the election?

Steve: Well, I would say two things. One is is the, the least defensible part of the way that progressive or certainly democratic party politics function is the lack of transparency. And so you, if you give, if you bought a $10 stock, you would on the stock exchange on Wall Street, you would get far more information about that company.

[00:18:00] Its operations, its challenges, regular quarterly reports. Then you would get, if you give a million dollars to the Democratic Party, and I know this cause I know people have given a million dollars to the Democratic Party and have seen what they've actually gotten, so, That's completely indefensible. And so you can't say, oh, yes, that's a strategic advantage, is that we don't tell our donors and stakeholders, you know, any information at all.

So it's not best practices and, and on top of it. And actually Obama's campaign on oh eight was actually much better around that. You know, they would bluff, it would do these YouTube videos where you update people on what's happening and the strategy and you deepen the engagement of your supporters when you share information.

So that I think is a point of that's a narrative point is why we have such bad practices. We're not doing best practices around how organizations should be functioning. And so that should be part of the narrative in the conversation. So that's, and that's one thing I would say. And then the other [00:19:00] is to lift up a far more unapologetic, bold public policy agenda.

Is there's a lot of timidity and fear that if you're too progressive, then it's gonna scare off the voters and you're gonna lose and you're not gonna actually have support. And this what I kind of get at in the, in the epilogue to, to how we win Civil War as I open using the example of universal basic income.

Michael Tubbs, his work up in Stockton around lifting this. And then as tubs is moving it forward, it's all this criticism and, oh, you know, shouldn't be giving people money and they're not, it's gonna disincentivize them, et cetera. And then I say, and then the pandemic hit. And then everybody got checks, right?

And we've discovered that we could actually provide checks to every single person in this country. We could suspend evictions, we could suspend student loan payments, and the country could still function. And so, and the level [00:20:00] of popular support endured. So, so the narrative I think has to lift up a far more, and I think it's actually.

Imperative towards this point around voter turnout. So a big part of investing in the groups and the people, getting people to the polls. The other part is inspiring people to have a reason to come out and vote and to turn out, and that's the public policy agenda, which addresses the issues of inequality and injustice and their sense of what society could and should be.

So that I think is the other definite element of what the policy agenda should be within this state and what the narrative actually should be, particularly in California, the richest state and the richest country and the history of the world. We have the resources in this state to end poverty.

So why isn't all we lack is the political will? And so, and we have the votes actually in terms of the state being majority people of color and people of color are suffering from a profound racial wealth gap. So [00:21:00] that I think is the other element around narrative and, and, and communication is putting forward a bold, unapologetic, inspiring public policy agenda.

Irene: Well, to me, this is interesting because you also, in your book reference how this is also reflective of the sorts of fights and the narrative put forward by the leaders in the civil rights movement, which I think a lot of people consider. The really the, an important era in which we went for really bold policies, and we got some pretty impressive historic wins.

I think a lot of people would argue we haven't had that same level of social change in sort of justice in the public narrative like that. And so I'm wondering, Again, like what do you think it's really gonna take for people to embrace that sense? Because we've also [00:22:00] seen in national polls over and over that voters tend to be further to the left where our elected leaders are.

But like you said, there is that sort of timidity. So yeah. What do you think, what kind of push needs to get done and are you seeing specific leaders be particularly strong champions who are good models for us to be following?

Steve: So, and I do think a lot of it is I gotta have to come more from the bottom up and in terms of finding places where this is happening and embracing that and elevating it and, and promoting that work. Right. So just the Chicago mayor election, right? Strong social justice progressives just won that race there over the more, far more moderate, which everybody thought was going to.

Now that narrative would've been off the charts, but that people are not, you know, promoting that piece. And then it's like looking at the work places like San Diego, right. In terms of the work that Alliance San Diego [00:23:00] has done over the past decade, Andrea Guerrero. They have flipped the through, expanding the vote, changing when these elections take place.

So the elections are in the fall when more people vote rather than in June. And so they've taken the city council from a five four split to a nine zero Democratic split. They have democrats have taken over the board of supervisors in in San Diego County, and they're moving a policy agenda. So lifting that up in pro.

So you hear far more about. You know, like the recall of the San Francisco District Attorney, oh, see, the people have gotten too left and too progressive and therefore they're paying this political price. But what about where the progressives are actually winning? You don't have the, you don't hear the same reverberations.

So I think it's lifting up those, that type of work. The work of groups like working Families Party, which is a very strong, unapologetic. Agenda and is advancing that throughout California and throughout the country as well. So I think that those are like some of the examples and the [00:24:00] places and the people who are leading this fight that we need to shine a light on and we need to embrace their example showing how this can actually be done.

Irene: So Steve, I have one last question for you. When writing a book, when going through

like the story of our history, what's happened in the United States, but also seeing the implications of it in real time, again with the insurrection, but just also what we've seen in terms of, you know, George Floyd, black Lives Matter. How do you stay hopeful and motivated that change is possible? Because again, it does feel like every time we see a little bit of progress, there's some sort of pushback or there's blowback or there's some ramifications for that.

So what keeps you feeling driven and hopeful?

Steve: It is helpful to look at these things through a historical lens, right? So here's a California story [00:25:00] for you. So actually I had a, at one point I had a big photo on my wall of people working in the field picking cotton. And so the reason I had done that is cuz in the night, late 1980s, we brought Jesse Jackson to California for the march on Sacramento that we had done.

And we were up in Maxine Water's office beforehand. And then we were also talking to Congress assemblyman in Elihu Harris at the time. And then people say to Jesse, cuz he had been in the south and then he had gone back to DC and then he had flown out to California. I said, Jesse, you're traveling so much, you must be so tired.

And Jesse says it beats picking cotton. Right. And so that has always stayed with me in terms of conceptual framework, right? We were held in slavery and picking cotton where we was. I basically for a hundred years was illegal to vote within this country. We were thrown into[00:26:00] back the, the south was given back to the slave holders in 1876 through the Hayes Tilden Compromise, which was brokered.

By a Georgia Senator John Brown Gordon, and that seat of John Brown Gordon's is now held by the literal successor to Martin Luther King Jr. In terms of Raphael Warnock, who breaches from Ebenezer Baptist Church. So the arc of history, there's lots to be encouraged about if you look at it in that context.

But it's all also very tenuous. So we have to remain vigilant and aggressive and proactive, but seen through the sweep of history. And I think fundamentally the affirmation and analysis that there is, in fact, a majority of people who want this country to be a multiracial democracy and not a white [00:27:00] nationalist nation, has been affirmed time and time again.

So it gets frustrating that people don't see it or they're not investing properly enough in it. But the fact of that majority is I would say pretty incontrovertible at this point in time. And that's the fundamental I think source of hope and motivation.

Irene: Thank you, Steve. All right. I do have actually one more closing question, an encore question. So what can encourage California, our progressive partners and community advocates do to ensure that the 2024 election isn't a repeat of the 2020 election?

Steve: Well, isn't it repeat in what way? I mean, it needs to be a repeated terms of Reelecting Biden, yes. In that regard. But I think it's this concept. I mean I I think it is this concept around It's symbolic, metaphorical when I say it, but I think it conveys the point around a million precinct captains, all voters, all PE are organized [00:28:00] into geographic units.

And those geographic units have list of who lives there and whether the people who live there are registered to vote and whether they've actually voted. So that's an organizing endeavor. And so I feel taking responsibility, if not for your own precinct, but to at least then support groups and people. Who are doing the work of trying to make sure that we are maximizing voter participation, particularly in these congressional seats that were won by Democrats in 2018 and lost in 2020.

Particularly in Southern California. That is, is enormously signif consequential work and it done properly should actually lead to. Democrats taking back control of the House of Representatives and then if that what that means in terms of what's possible in terms of a public policy agenda a proactive way is very exciting, but a minimum of, you know, forced stalling their efforts to [00:29:00] continue to march us back towards white nationalist fascism.

So doing everything possible to support the work of like getting people registered to vote and getting people to vote. Is the fundamental challenge, I think of this, of this time period.

Irene: Thank you, Steve. It's been really wonderful to have you on the podcast. So obviously you have a couple books out there. You have your own podcast. If you could tell our listeners of where, where, and how they can find you, so how they can find you on social media, your website, in your books.

Steve: So democracy and color.com is another, the anchor of all of our work. And so that's our podcast is democracy and color, which steve Phillips color.com people can sign up for our mailing list. We do a weekly newsletter with analysis and links. And so that's the, the best way to, to stay in the know.

Irene: Thank you Steve. I do wanna underscore what you mentioned earlier too, in terms of, [00:30:00] you know, winning these elections, but also just longer term. Victories that we need is, is investing and investing early. And so that for me is an opportunity to say, of course, courage, California. We're already starting to, to do our work for the 2024 election, both in terms of putting in the, the polling, the research, the communications work, working with partners to identify what regions and voters we wanna turn out.

And that work starts now and with, with partners like Communities for New California, as you mentioned in the Central Valley. And so want to tell listeners now, of course in order for organizations like Courage, California, other Partners to do our work, we need those investments in our, in our work now.

And so hope you consider making donations to Courage California through Courage california.org. There's a donate button at the top right corner of the website. Thank you.[00:31:00]